Boycott AG? For or Against and why...

[cebula_2005]

StarTrekCaptain--you said it perfectly! Everything just shows there has to be a Creator.

Voice-of-Reason--God is eternal. Nobody had to create Him, for He always was. Time is a man-made concept. God is outside of time. He IS the beginning and the end. He has no beginning and no end.

Shortie--God is not an old bearded man sitting up there judging you. Christianity is not patriarchal. Everyone is considered an important child of God. Women are no less than men. They were made after men and they were made from Adam's rib, but that does not make them any less. Just different. People are tryign to make men adn women the same when we are not. We both have our places and goals in the world along with our purposes. This is not to say that women shoudl stay home and raise the babies and men be the breadwinner, just that women can do some things men can't (have babies, breast feed, etc.) and men can do some things women can't (they ARE physically stronger than women, they can pee standing up, etc.). It takes them both to make the world run, just as you need a man adn a woman to make a baby. So...

As to the no scientific proof of God. Let me ask you this? If you came upon a watch sitting in the middle of a field, would you think it just magically appeared in some cosmic bang or evolved from a smaller watch or would you think there was a Watchmaker who took the time to lovingly craft the watch?

Thanks for your views and for posting,
Tra

[StarTrekCaptain]

I think as I said before the world is too wonderful to have just simply happened.

God has no beginning and no end.
We humans tend to think of time going in a line- because we are born, live thru a succession of events, and die. Its a line.
But God is not like that. Time does not go in a line, time just exists. Did you know time is different thoughout the universe? Our time are days of approx. 24 hour based on how our planet rotates, months based on our planet's moon, and years based on the changing seasons due to rotation.
Our planet's time is based on how things work on our planet.

Other planets time is different. And I am not real great with science but I remember some thing where time speeds up or slows down or soemthing like that. I am not the best person to explain it.
But the point was, time is different throughout the universe.
And to God, time is practically nonexistent- He has no start and no end, and a million years are like a secodn to Him.

As I said, its hard for humans to think of time that way, but that's what is.

[StarTrekCaptain]

Sorry to post again but I wanted to add that if people need to have proof that God exists then they'll never have faith.
I mean, think about Hebrews 11:1, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
If you have faith, you don't need proof because you already KNOW it. You just KNOW and there's nothing esle to it.
And if you don't have faith, but you are looking are for something you feel like you're missing, and in your heart this makes sense and you develop a faith, great.
But if you say, "I can't believe that" and you wait for science to prove it, and then someday somehow science proves that God is there, then you say "okay, science proved it, I believe it now"

...well, I mean, come on...you wouldn't really have any faith, would you? Because the whole point of faith is that you know what you know and you believe it even though there may not be a logical reason why you should. Isn't that kind of the point of faith?

[vor]

Originally posted by Tra:
Voice-of-Reason--God is eternal. Nobody had to create Him, for He always was. Time is a man-made concept. God is outside of time. He IS the beginning and the end. He has no beginning and no end.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But the point is, if you can accept it as a given that God didn't require a creator, why should I have to accept it as a given that the universe required one?

Personally, I believe the universe itself is eternal and timeless, and has always existed. And science supports this. The universe *as we know it* may not have existed forever, but the raw materials did.

It's a basic law of physics: you can't make something out of nothing, nor can you make nothing out of something. All matter can do is change form. For example, if you burn a log, the log doesn't cease to exist--it only ceases to be wood, and turns into ash, carbon, gas, etc. If sodium and chloride bond, they cease to exist as separate elements--but salt is created. These are not "accidents," nor do they involve supernatural intervention.

[StarTrekCaptain]

Voice-of-reason:

"For example, if you burn a log, the log doesn't cease to exist--it only ceases to be wood, and turns into ash, carbon, gas, etc. If sodium and chloride bond, they cease to exist as separate elements--but salt is created. These are not "accidents," nor do they involve supernatural intervention."

No they're not accidents, but yes they do require supernatural intervention.
Because wood, logs, ash, carbon, gas, sodium, chloride, and salt would not be here if God didn't
make it happen that way.

Just my opinion [img]wink.gif[/img]

[rachie421]

Shortie--God is not an old bearded man sitting up there judging you. Christianity is not patriarchal. Everyone is considered an important child of God. Women are no less than men. They were made after men and they were made from Adam's rib, but that does not make them any less. Just different. People are tryign to make men adn women the same when we are not. We both have our places and goals in the world along with our purposes. This is not to say that women shoudl stay home and raise the babies and men be the breadwinner, just that women can do some things men can't (have babies, breast feed, etc.) and men can do some things women can't (they ARE physically stronger than women, they can pee standing up, etc.). It takes them both to make the world run, just as you need a man adn a woman to make a baby. So...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL, I think you took what I said out of context or misunderstood. I agree with you that 'god' is not an old man in the sky, but to me that is what the masculine word 'god' means to me. And for some super old school sexist Christians thats what it means too. I believe the higher power that exists and connects us does not have a gender and at the same time it is masculine and feminine because that is what humans are. It simply is. So I agree with you on that, I dont believe in an old man in the sky either. I just dont like using that word.

As for the question on faith, I think we will just continue to go round and round on this with no resolution, LOL. The whole point of faith is not needing science, I totally agree on that. I'm just saying that there is no factual proof of a higher power, even though I believe in one anyway. Nor, however, is there any proof there isn't a higher power.

[cebula_2005]

Sigh...I was just thinking how happy I am that I have faith. Sigh. Happy Sigh.
[img]smile.gif[/img]

Faith is such a wonderful thing.

I know what I know. I'm sure. Only by God's grace could I be that sure. And I am.

Faith is such a wonderful thing.

I believe that everything proves God's existence, but you're right, Shortie, in that we will be going around in a circle on this. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[StarTrekCaptain]

I agree we just have to agree to disagree [img]tongue.gif[/img]

But I was just thinking the same thing, Tra, that I am glad I have faith, it is so nice to have that solid foundation to stand on.
I know what I know what I know. I don't have to doubt or worry or second-guess and I just KNOW.
[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[cebula_2005]

Yup! You just KNOW! [img]smile.gif[/img] That's it exactly. [img]smile.gif[/img] It is nice to have a good solid foundation to build your life on. And even if there's trouble, you know He is always there for you. He can take away your doubts and pains. It's nice to know I am Saved and Safe in His Hands. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Sanguinarius]

Interesting.....

I also believe that God as many think of him was once a "man". He has and had a human body in human form. He had to have had one if we were made in his likeness.

I believe he once walked on an "earth" and had to grow learn and choose. Again, we are in his likeness. He wanted us to learn as he did.

He may have had a "God" of whom he was begotten. I say that because he wanted us to marry, have children, and again we are in his likeness and are to do the things he has done.

Do I KNOW who created him? Nope. But isn't the thought of a Heavenly Grandmother and Grandfather a cool idea?